Season 2 Ep 13, An Ancient Lineage of Exorcists: Exploring Beyond the Visible

In a world where the invisible often goes unnoticed (and diving into a topic few desire to talk about openly and even fewer want to admit is real), the latest episode of the Disrupt Now Podcast brings to light some of the most profound yet underexplored aspects of ancient truths around exorcisms, the healing of humanity, the Earth, and more.

This episode’s guest is Dr. Jack Schaefer, a Doctor of Chinese Medicine, a Taoist Priest, and one who has carried on an ancient lineage of exorcists. This is Part 2 of a two-part series with Dr. Schaefer, so catch the first one if you haven’t watched that yet, which is Season 2, Ep. 12.

In this Part 2 episode, we dive into these following elements (and more!):

• The significance of recognizing and managing our energies

• The unseen and malevolent beings that exist

• The ancient lineage of exorcists

• Ancestral and other traumas and healing methods used in Taoist practices

• Energy cultivation practices and raising our vibrations through consciousness (and more!)

This enlightening conversation aims to shed light on often overlooked yet vital aspects of spiritual and cosmic healing-- truly providing Cosmic Medicine for the Sacred Soul!

LISTEN TO OR WATCH THE EPISODE HERE:

Jack is a doctor of Chinese medicine who has been educated in the US and China and has continued to travel to China over the last 25 years. He has practiced and taught in the US and Europe. Jack, co-founder of The Parting Clouds Daoist Temple Community is an ordained 22nd generation Daoist Priest in the Quanzhen, Longmen tradition at the Jian Fu Gong on Qingcheng Mountain, Daoist name Li Xuan 理玄. He is also ordained as a 25th generation Daoist Priest in the Quanzhen, Longmen tradition at the Qingyun Daoguan, Daoist name Xin Yin 信銀. Jack's expertise lies in cultivation, Daoist medicine, and making the complicated simple.

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⏰41mins

00:01 INTRO & WELCOME

Welcome to the Disrupt Now Podcast, this is Natalie Vigli -Owen, your host, and this is Season 2, Unlocking the Cosmic Mysteries Around New Earth Magic. My desire is to bring conversations that serve as cosmic medicine for all of the sacred souls that seek the revealing of the magic and mystery of the organic celestial energies.

00:33

I powerfully step in as a sacred vessel for the cosmic mother, or as we can say, the divine feminine energy rising. I walk an authentic druidic path of primordial tradition, and I am here to share wisdom and the highest truth for the betterment of all beings, animals, minerals, plant life, and all that is.

01:00

Please join me on this journey to explore and awaken the magic again. Today I'm really excited to introduce you to Dr. Jack Schaeffer, and we have two episodes with this guest. First of all, he's a doctor of Chinese medicine.

01:21

He's a 22nd generation Taoist priest, and he is the co -founder of Parting Clouds Taoist education. He's been a lifelong practitioner of Asian martial arts and has spent decades under the study and practice of Chinese medicine.

01:39

We're going to talk about this self -healing capability that we all have, and then another episode we're going to look at lower astral energies. We're going to dive into the topic of self -healing through cultivation of our chi, vital life force energy.

02:00

one episode and then we're going to talk about these lower astral energies that many people don't like talking about but it is essential to talk about because these are energies that have drained the life force out of our universe and individually out of our realm.

02:20

And this is a conversation that's extremely important to have because we can't really be in an environment like we are in and not talk about the truth that there's higher and lower, for lack of better terms, higher astral energies that are pulling up that evolution and there are lower astral energies that want to keep people in frequencies of fear.

02:47

So we could literally say it's the love energy and the fear energy that are working but in a very extreme way. So I'm very excited to talk to Dr. Jack Shafer because these are kind of opposite ends of the spectrum in the conversation, but equally important to have.

03:05

I hope that you loved both of these episodes with Dr. Schaeffer because these are topics that we need to bring more and more into the light so that they can be seen, heard, and known, even if they're topics that are a little more uncomfortable.

03:22

Jeff, welcome back for another episode. In this one, we're going to dive and meander into yet another journey. So I appreciate you being here again.

03:32

Thank you. Thanks. I'm excited again, obviously. The first time was a blast.

03:37

This time we'll leave. Thanks for having me. Though, of course, you know, we actually never left. It's just, you know, we're still in the same section, guys, but, you know, you're all catching up. That's why we're wearing this in the float.

03:49

Yeah, time travel, exactly. We had a little time travel. Yeah. Okay. So in the first one, you know, we really unfolded around health and healing, Chinese medicine, qigong, you know, the magic of the simple, that's what the way I really look at it is like Daoism being a simple way to look at fixing complex things, that it can be as simple as slight movement and very specific intentional rough work.

04:17

And I mean, it's just, it's things that we do every single day almost yet don't really realize we're doing them. I eat like breathing, of course. So we're going to go into a little bit of a different part of this same world, meaning health and healing and movement of energies.

04:34

Yet in this realm, there has been so much focus on guardian angels or archangels and angels or guardians and benevolence beings and whatever. I mean, there's a billion words for that. But when you get into this conversation around the malevolent beings and that this is, that that is a possibility that there are other forces here that we need to be very, We need to have an understanding of and around,

05:04

and this is why talking to you, I think, is really powerful because you, in all of your studies, throughout all of these decades, throughout all of your journeys into China and elsewhere, you've also seen the healing side from this entity side for lack of a better, I mean, there's a billion names that we could say, but I'll just use that for ease of use.

05:29

So you've been taken into those realms too. So, you know, I mean, I can't imagine, now, I guess it depends on what age you were, but when you were kind of taken into those depths, if we will, how did that open up an awareness within you that there's like this, I don't know, other side, I don't know how else, because I had to have been very intriguing for you.

05:58

Taoism has low healing rituals, we call juyo, which is like incantations from the source, or we call fujo, which are just basically talents from the incantation. What they are, it's a medicine style that's used for treating illnesses or more serious problems related to feng shui, or somebody's birth chart, or incompatibility of stars and deities to possessions or people being troubled by ghosts and demons or whatnot.

06:34

Taoism being a very old religion has developed ways to notice these things, to understand them, and also come up with ways to deal with them through some sort of corrective measure or exorcistic measure or something like that.

06:54

That's something that I had read about and been really interested in for obvious reasons. It's a fascinating topic. It's a really interesting thing. I think most people would say they've seen or felt or encountered that kind of thing.

07:11

If you asked them in private, they would probably say they have, publicly they might keep it sort of quiet. I didn't think that it was something that I would probably ever get tired of. It's very difficult to learn.

07:22

It's not something that you just kind of pick up a book and learn willy -nilly. It can be dangerous and can lead to a lot of problems, and I've seen it lead to problems in practitioners who weren't prepared to do it, and it also requires a certain kind of dedication to continued practice in order to maintain and sort of hold it all together, so to speak.

07:48

But I never thought I would learn it. And then I was fortunate enough on a trip to China to be introduced to the person that would become a scholar. my first teacher in this exorcistic lineage in Southern China.

08:02

And we were introduced to him and we got to learn his history and stay at his temple and witness him performing these rituals for people and hearing the stories of the things that he had done and witnessing things.

08:18

And then even one of the friends of mine at the time who was on one of our trips seeing what he did for that person, wasn't experiencing any serious possession, but he was definitely experiencing some sort of environmental energy that was plaguing him physically.

08:35

It was really remarkable. And that teacher, because we were so dedicated to practicing the little thing he taught us, he invited us to continue to study with it. And so he invited us back and we went back and he took us as disciples into his lineage.

08:58

basically opened up all of his teachings. In fact, the last time we signed, he took us to his private room and he had this big bookcase with glass on it, and the doors were locked, and he unlocked the doors and opened them and said, here you go.

09:14

It was just everything I have is yours. When I die, all these manuals are yours, and they're old, hand -copied, exorcist stick manuals and whatnot. I can't tell you how, like, Revett touched me, you know?

09:30

It's amazing to open that up. And so the things that we've learned from him, we really, my partner Josh and I, who I teach with, we just really taken it deeply and feel really honored to have this lineage and to be able to not just share it with our own students, but also to use it and, you know, sort of help the suffering, so to speak.

09:56

Exactly. What? Yeah. It was a miracle, I think. And like I said, I never thought I would actually get to learn that stuff, so. It's amazing, yeah. It's beautiful because, and I guess for him, the time was that time, and allowing to pass that knowledge on is really powerful, too.

10:16

Yeah, yeah. Especially to two foreigners, you know? I mean, he only had one serious student, Chinese woman, who lived near him and was there every day. And then he had a couple of sort of part -time students, but we're the only foreigners that he ever took in that way, and it was remarkable.

10:35

Wow. Wow. Yeah, this, you know, that takes me into some rememberings. You know, when I was little, there was something in this consciousness that I stream that knew and always had this very clear, absolutely not, feeling around people that were messing with these energies, that they knew nothing about.

10:54

I'm talking about the Ouija boards. I'm talking about the... You know, just all of those things you, like, kids do, well, you used to do. I hope, I don't know if they do them anymore. Probably, I don't know, but you know, it's like, I, I remember when I saw the Exorcist for the first time, I was like, Oh, I couldn't even take five minutes of it because I'm like, this is real.

11:16

I can't watch this. This is freaking me out. So it was like a visceral reaction to, to that truth, to a truth that I knew was a truth, it's not entertainment to me. It's suffering on a level that's like in sanity to me.

11:34

Now, you know, fast forward mid forties, I'm a very different person than then, but I still know that this is, this is why I wanted to speak with you about this. It's important to know and to share this wisdom with others because there are answers and solutions.

11:50

And if we recognize, I almost think it's the recognition that can actually help. disempower energies that have an ill intent, if you will, or I mean, look, it's not life -supporting, it's life -draining, regardless of how we look at what that is, what these essences are, right?

12:11

So what I'm kind of curious on is, what are some of these bigger takeaways that you've been able to glean from not only the workings of maybe these texts that you read, but maybe what you've even seen?

12:24

That's an interesting question. I would say this, I do a fair amount of, I'm gonna use the word Taoist medicine just kind of generically with regards to this, but what I really mean are these artsmen, talisman and ritual medicine, and I do a fair amount of it.

12:40

The need for, when I first learned it, I thought, wow, this is gonna be great, I'm gonna really enjoy doing it, and the doing serious sort of exorcistic stuff where people have other entities that are stuck to them, in them, driving them, that is really not fun.

13:01

It actually is really scary to do, and you're holding, you have to hold a stability. Imagine like you're making this microcosm around this person, and you have to hold a stability in that and yourself, in the place you're doing it, and be able to extract this thing, whatever it is.

13:25

They're not, whether it's a ghost or some sort of weird spirits, and they've all kinds of things we talk about, and then take it away and put it somewhere else. It's very scary, the people are scared, the people that are there with them are scared.

13:40

It's obnoxious and noisy, and it's very weird. The need for that level of it, I don't find as much of the maybe I thought there would be. I think when it happens, it's scary, but when people are presenting, to me in that situation.

13:58

We use some methods to determine what kind of thing is going on with them. We use a cultivation where you learn to directly perceive what it is so you can see it on them. The first time I saw one of these things, it looked just like my teacher said it would, and it was unnerving.

14:21

But the amount of times that happens is pretty rare. Most times it's just like weird environmental energies and a lot of times it's actually just mental illness. I think separating mental illness from possession is really important because sometimes mental illness looks like possession, sometimes possession is possession.

14:42

They can have a similar appearance. I know that once I listened to a Catholic exorcist giving a talk about exorcism, and he said that of the thousands of times a year he gets requested to do them but it's a small percentage because most of the time they determined through for them, they use counseling and stuff and they determined that most people that come to them or just have mental illnesses. And I think that's the tricky part is decide because you don't want to always sometimes it's just schizophrenia and there is nothing there.

14:57

15:16

And sometimes there is something there that makes them look schizophrenic. You know, that's, yeah. Yeah. And I think that's where people get themselves into trouble. I remember early on dealing with a woman who was schizophrenic and trying to do exorcistic things with her and it was not very far into my training.

15:38

It really had, did not have been doing what I was doing and it really just never went well and she never made much progress. And at a certain point of talking to my teacher and my friend who I do this training with, we decided that this is just, that was wrong treatment and she really needed to get treatment first.

15:57

And then I've had times where people, life first thought, I think this person might just have a mental illness and I do the method of discernment of what they have and like, you see it, you see the thing that's there.

16:09

We do the ritual and it's gone and they feel better and it never comes back. You know? Right. And when, you know, I think there's danger in being cavalier. Sure. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, the one thing about when we say schizophrenia or mental illness, you know, what we're often dealing with is massive trauma of some kind.

16:30

And instead of like pushing them into a system that doesn't heal them, which is, I mean, let's, let's be honest about that entire system that's been created around that, it's awful when, you know, shamans, you know, for, I mean, healers of any kind for, you said it's an exorcist, you know, lineage.

16:48

This is like thousands and thousands and thousands of years, right? So, but trauma has gotten to the point in our realm where. trauma can literally, the one of my mentors, he described it as, it's like you're knocked out of alignment.

17:04

It's like your energetic force kind of splits. And so, these are my master herbalism studies and there's herbs that can help bring you back into oneness, if you will. And there's, of course, then begin to cheat on and all these other practices that can help assist in that.

17:22

But it's like knocking us out of alignment is very different from what you're also speaking about, which is other forces or things that are in your work and subtle body energies. Yeah, totally. The way that we go through this discernment process and somebody comes in and they're there because there's something wrong.

17:44

And so, we'll go through it and decide, okay, it's not some ghost or thing that's attacking them. It's not some environmental cheat. Sometimes it is, like you said, a trawler in that's a different, that's a different fix.

17:58

I mean, so what we do is we look at those in alignment lines of the words we use are like correcting somebody's stars. So they've got this. Yeah, so, so we use a term called Ming in Chinese and it's called trajectory.

18:14

It's the way my friend Libya describes it. And people will often translate it as destiny, but it's not. It's kind of where karma, like the karma you're born with. So like my karma is I'm born looking this way in the town I was to the parents I have, you know, like those are things I can't help, but it's where that meets the choices that I may and how I choose to live my life.

18:38

And then it creates this momentum, which is we call circumstantial trajectory. Like my life is now going this way based on my karma, the things that happened to us, you know, because obviously there, it's not somebody's choice to mug or something.

18:52

And so those things also leave an effect on us. And that becomes then part of our circumstantial trajectory. And so that nudges us into a certain direction. That direction is, is going to be replete illnesses, engines, you know, all kinds of things that some of them we can't even list until they, they show up.

19:15

And what we have are rituals that we use to try and adjust the stars, so to speak, to, to change that momentum in a different direction, to call in different deities or create certain protections or just cause karma to normalize or balance.

19:35

Or I'm not sure what the right word would be for that, but there are times when that's more appropriate. And I would say like when I think about the number of rituals I've done in the last few months, I've done zero exorcisms in the last few months.

19:49

I've done a few like, and these sort of environmental cheese that are these environmental energies that are attached. attacking people and just make real problems. But I've done a lot of adjusting the stars kind of stuff, where you're taking certain hormones from the situation, attaching it to say like a substitute you, and then burning that you and giving it kind of like a reset.

20:17

There's multiple rituals that look kind of like that. And I've done many more of those, or trying to bring different deities or the deities that are sort of in charge of your birth years and things like that into to kind of help protect or guide or lead or harmonize somebody's position in the universe.

20:38

That I do more of. But I think it really isn't a lie to what you're saying about the amount of trauma out there. I think that's much more common than the real need for dealing with a malevolent being.

20:50

Yeah, dependent on the level of trauma when it was. All these other factors, I'm sure. The real discernment here, I think, is a level of it anyway, is if somebody is hearing them, their own voice, for example, telling them to take their life, for example.

21:09

To me, that is a level of like, okay, this is something else. We're dealing with something else. This is not because any, I mean, that is in a direct conflict with a soul's desire of evolution, whatever that needs to look like for a said person.

21:29

But what are some, I guess, once that discernment on your side is like, okay, we are dealing with something else here, what does that tee up kind of look like? Because I don't think that anybody is really coming to somebody in that knowing often, right?

21:48

I mean, I can't imagine that that's the case anyway. That's interesting. I don't usually see people, you know, people come to me for a reason. So I don't usually often, you know, like I wouldn't really find somebody out of the blue and figure it out.

22:02

So either they or like somebody who knows them is bringing them in. And so we know that there's something. And sometimes people don't even know what to say. They just say things like, I just, I don't feel right.

22:17

I don't feel, I don't feel normal. I can't seem to find joy or happiness. And we go through some conversations that include things like, well, what does this feel like? When did it start happening? And why do you think it's happening?

22:33

I think those are really important because people, that a lot of times tell you, like it started when I got divorced and ever since then I haven't been able, that's probably not, that's not maybe necessarily trauma.

22:48

Maybe it is, but it's a more identifiable thing. But sometimes people will say, I don't know. I've been this way since I was in an act. accident since then I've been different, or I've been this way since I was my teens, or sometimes we can't even come up with a when or a why.

23:05

People don't often have a why. And so one of the things I do there is part of something called Qimlan Doenjia. It's where we pull somebody's star chart. At the moment that they ask the question, we mark that time.

23:19

And that time is a portal to look into the Qimlan means the strange gate. It's like, you have a chance to look into, like pass the veil into this other world around what a person is. So we can make this chart based on the then and this time, and then we interpret the chart.

23:44

And the chart will have all kinds of wild information on it about this person and their particular problem, depending on when you do it. that can a lot of times tell us what we can expect for prognosis.

23:59

It can tell us about other things that are going on that may be below the surface. It also tells us a lot about corrections. There's usually two schools of this. Some people will learn it and they'll just interpret it.

24:12

And then our school, we learn it and then we learn how to correct it. And the corrections are usually ritually based. So they are all doing rituals on behalf of a person, sometimes at our own altars, sometimes in the person's home.

24:28

Sometimes we need to do it in certain areas of their home. Sometimes we need rearranged parts of their home. And it's really weird. My one teacher, for example, we were talking and he was telling us a story.

24:40

So I was on the phone with a client the other day who was having this particular problem. And I did their chart and it said that they need to take this really sharp object out of this part of their bedroom.

24:55

And the guy kept saying, no, no, I don't have anything like that in there. And he's like, just go look. I know you have something like that because the chart says so. It turns out he had a metal rifle tower that had fallen behind his bed that had been there for a while.

25:10

And he's like, you have to get rid of that thing. Just something really strange. How would you know that? And it's through the interpreting that chart. And so I use that in scenarios too, where we'll look at that and it'll give us a lot of information about somebody and solutions.

25:27

It's pretty neat. That's not even really exorcistic. It's just, you know, Clearing the field, Dallas magic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, this is, it's incredible that you connected into that lineage.

25:40

What that tells me is that this conversation around entities and things that need to be cleared, these should be things that we're learning, like when we're young and this should just be part of every day conversation.

25:55

It should be as easy to talk about this as anything else because I think that we be a whole hell of a lot healthier and there's be a lot more healing if that were the case. So I'm glad that you're here talking about it with me.

26:10

Yeah, me too. And to enjoy it. So let's let's talk about the teacher that took you guys in and what were some of the if you know, I don't know how much you want to always share about things like that.

26:21

But what were some of the things that you guys found that kind of blew your minds, like blew the portals into other realms from you guys? Oh, yeah. I mean, there's so many, so many stories. But I think one of the things that you kind of alluded to this earlier that people almost toy with this stuff, especially in the West, where it's like they, everybody, people want to be an exorcist.

26:47

They want to mess with spiritual powers and stuff, but they do it in a way that makes you feel like they don't really believe in it. I don't really take it seriously, because if something was really dangerous, would you want to mess around with it?

27:00

No, would you? And I think when we got to his temple the very first time, we arrived in the middle of the night, and so we couldn't really see it was just dark, dark, and his temple is in this valley, and there was no moon, it was really dark, and we arrived, and we're just led to this wing off the side of the temple where our rooms were.

27:26

So I had no idea what this place was like. So in the morning, we got up and went down to eat some breakfast and prepare for the morning rituals and stuff, and then I'm looking around the valley that his temple is in, and all I see are graveyards.

27:42

There are graveyards over there, and graveyards over there, and there's some farmers in the bottom of the valley, and then I come to find out that there's graveyards on both sides of the temple, and he's like, yeah, we have to have it in this kind of place.

27:57

It has to be here. You don't build it in what we call a really young energy place. It has to be in this area, because we have to put the things that we take away from people, these bad things, they go into the graves.

28:13

His sincerity to build a temple and live in the midst of graveyards kind of blew me away. So we watched him do multiple rituals for people, and I remember there was this one that he was doing. It was one of the first ones I saw him do, and we see him, and he's stepping around and doing this kind of choreographed stepping, and he's chanting through his teeth, and it sounds angry, and this poor person is sitting in a chair,

28:39

and he's burning things and throwing them, and all these wild rituals, and then you see him, and he comes walking out of the room where he's doing this with his hands tucked like this, and really angry looking.

28:53

I was like, is going on. And he walks over to this edge of this where the temple grounds kind of ends, and there's this sort of drop off into a gully, and he takes and puts his, reaches his hands over and he tosses his hand out like this, and he yells the word fall, which means just seal, like we're sealing, getting a seal.

29:15

And he just does that like two seconds later, all the birds and around all the trees around the temple just flew off. And it was just the most bizarre thing, like whatever they saw him toss out there, freaked them out.

29:28

And it wasn't just in front of him. It was all around behind us everywhere. They just flew off in like a storm of birds just getting out of there. And I was like, what is good? This is crazy, you know?

29:39

And his sincerity and the way he practiced was really, I think really touching. And it really made me realize, okay, if I'm going to do this, I really have to do it, you know? So I didn't make a choice.

29:51

Am I going to? Am I in or am I out? That was one. I think another one is really interesting. I mean, in order to do Taoist ritual and Taoist medicine, you have to be Taoist and you have to have certain ordinations and certain relationships with different deities and whatnot because they assist you through these things.

30:13

And we do a lot of cultans and one of them is we have to learn to cultivate yin energy. When we speak of yin energy in this way, we're talking about it so that you can perceive these otherworldly things.

30:27

You have a cultivation practice that you have to, in the middle of a graveyard, be also really unnerving. You start to feel and perceive these things around you that are moving in and around you and you can't be scared.

30:44

You can't look at them. You just have to hold the cultivation steady the entire time you're doing it. They get really attracted to you. In their world, they see you as like a bright light. And so they come towards that like, what is this?

30:59

Like I'm off to a flame or something and around you and stuff. And you can feel that and it's very strange and experienced before. But also afterward, I felt much less scared of that kind of thing. Right.

31:14

It's like you touched it. We know a lot of it. Yeah. And then we don't have to deal with it. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, the whole exorcism, like the true exorcism side, like you said, that is, I actually had someone tell me one time that after, it was a longer story, but basically after an ayahuasca ceremony, this person and this shaman that was leading that had a sexual relationship.

31:44

So it was a very different dynamic. And apparently this specific ceremony is this. Shaman, maybe didn't cultivate the things that were necessary to hold the space. And anyway, long story short, as this person ended up taking in and had to literally, it was a full -on possession that took place where she said, the Shaman said that there were like five people holding this person down and just the strength and the,

32:19

so it was definitely just this other thing. And so that's a very, that is like you said, that's intense. That's something else altogether. Yeah, for sure. And so when that is something that you've been involved in from your angle, like cultivating that energy and that power to hold that space to cleanse and purify this person, that must be in an extravagant amount of energy and resources that you're pulling in.

32:51

Is that true? Yeah, you know, it definitely comes with time because the cultivation method that we do with that teacher takes three years. And there's several steps that have to happen because when we do this thing, we see the practitioner is both the vessel and the ingredients for the medicine, as well as the making of the medicine.

33:18

All of the things that are happening for this person are being generated through the practitioner. Because if I'm getting somebody a talisman, a talisman is just a piece of paper with ink on it. That's all it is.

33:31

In order for that to have any magic to it or any power, that has to come directly through me as a practitioner. So me as a practitioner, I only get that power a few ways. One is through my relationship with deities.

33:46

That relationship comes through ordination and practice. So practice like ritual practices at an altar and a regular basis over time. Very prescribed. But it also comes through the kind of vessel I am as a person.

34:04

You wouldn't make medicine like a filthy disease -ridden bottle because it's not going to be pure. So that means the practitioner, we follow precepts. We have to live a very special kind of life where we're trying to live in alignment with cosmic goodness as much as we can.

34:22

So we follow a significant number of precepts, and we have to hold these precepts permanently. They're not something that we just do for a little while and then go off them. If you go off them, then you have to go back on them for a while to re -purify.

34:37

So we do those, and then there are other sort of the abilities and the powers that are based on baby meditations or alter, devotional alter practices or whatnot. And so we have to do all of these. things for a period of time in order to just be able to do it.

34:56

And the better, longer we do it, the more we're able to successfully hold those spaces. So, you know, as good as my intentions were as a new practitioner, I also wasn't as effective as I was a year later or two years later or all these years later, like my abilities are better, hardly just spending time doing those things.

35:22

There's nothing special about me as a person. Anybody could do it. That's the cool part about it. We just have to know, be taught it, and then sincerely follow it. Right. Which does actually make it, you know, uniquely somebody's because not everyone is willing to dedicate and practice in the ways necessary also, because...

35:47

It is a lot in any kind of healing practice as we can say, we drink the very tea that we're giving to somebody else. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. I mean, you know, we, if we're not willing to do it, we can ever expect somebody else to be willing, you know, we don't believe it.

36:04

Why would you expect them to believe it? Take it seriously. Well, this is fascinating. And I think open is just a whole new realm of how I would say is understanding our reality and looking at this other, these other possibilities.

36:18

So I think that knowing that there are people like you that have dedicated and, and actually have, and, and you know what, I would say you are very unique for the thing, for the very thing that happened to you by having this lineage working in this capacity of doing exorcisms and cleansings in that way, opening up for that.

36:39

Here you go. Here's all my ancient texts. That they're yours. I mean, obviously that sets you apart. And this was part of the path, if we will. So pretty magnificent. Yeah. I know we both feel really fortunate.

36:55

I do all, all of this stuff happened with partner Josh Painter. We run parting clouds together. And so all of these educational things we've happened together, it's been, he's been an amazing partner through all of this.

37:06

And yeah, going through that experience with him, it was very cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Well, I think this is a topic that people should definitely, I would recommend everyone going, if you haven't taken the time to think about this as possibilities and discovering more about this, do you have some insights and awareness on your parting clouds, TaoistEducation .com site?

37:30

Yeah. We, all of our teaching, we don't really have too many articles on there or things like that yet. They're definitely interviews and stuff. Our website needs a little bit of an update. The way we work was we, we do mostly cohort teaching and then we're about to launch some.

37:47

just kind of one -off public teaching things here in the near future. We're in the middle of putting that thing together. And one of them is sort of a basic exorcistic viewpoint that can be taught really simply.

38:00

It's a really interesting group of protocols and whatnot. And there's an article that I wrote for the 2024 Journal of Taoist Studies around Taoist medicine, which includes ritual exorcism, all of that.

38:15

And that was published in February, I think, or January of 2024. So that's out there available. And that has a lot of information around the things that we're talking about in this talk today. Great.

38:31

Well, definitely make sure to share that as part of the write -up and such. But mountainwestwellness .com is your other website, correct? Yeah, that's my clinic website. Yeah. So people are looking for...

38:45

help with Dallas medicine or spiritual medicine and can reach out to mountainwestwellness .com or they can reach out to Josh and I through parting clouds, just education either way is fine. Either way.

38:57

Okay. Brilliant. Well, thank you so much for diving into this topic today with me. I appreciate you, Jack, for being here again. And I look forward to future conversation. Thanks for having me. That was really, it was really fun.

39:13

And I really enjoyed talking about that. A lot of people aren't willing to go down that rabbit hole and it was fun doing it. So yeah, it's an important rabbit bowl. Anytime for sure. Thank you for listening to the disrupt now podcast.

39:30

Please leave us a review. Also, if you want to get these episodes to your inbox, go to disrupt now podcast .com and you can drop your email in. You can also see all of the episodes since day one. If you'd like to connect, we have a couple of different ways.

39:50

You can join us on telegram. The group is called awakening magic, or if you want to drop a line, email us at info at Natalie, the gliome .com. Thank you for being here on this journey to awaken the magic again.

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